Snowflake Challenge #15: Create a challenge

[enemyofperfect]

I think my challenge has to be to create a piece of meta about something you enjoy, be it fannish or otherwise!

For the purpose of this challenge, I'm going to define meta as any opinion or discussion of something that's more complex than "I love/hate/am indifferent to this thing". So for example, even "I love/hate this thing because..." totally counts! Comparisons between things; explorations of in-story or authorial reasons for things; and speculation of all kinds are other extremely viable forms of meta that I just came up with off the top of my head.

Actually, I don't know if this is going to work at all, but I got so many awesome positive responses to the post where I talked about the joy of discussing characters and playing with what-ifs that I'm going to declare the comments of this post a sort of... meta fest? for sharing and prompting meta and what-ifs of any kind. You can mention a fandom or fandoms you're particularly interested in and/or a subject you'd like to see discussed in a fannish context, and maybe it'll kick off some fun conversations!

Example prompts:

• Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood headcanons!
• Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters
• What are some of your favorite neurodivergent characters and how does their neurodivergence manifest?
• What one thing would you change if your favorite canon(s) were rebooted, and why?

All of you are so cool and I'm secretly so shy! Won't you come and play?

Comments

Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[enemyofperfect]

I'm totally making this an actual prompt and then filling it myself, because I'm still indignant about the show's decision to make her a hammer to Reese's scalpel.

Now, I'm sure there are fans who love her as a blunt instrument, and I'd be lying if I said that wasn't a flavor I can appreciate too! But I will also never forget her first episode, in which she successfully posed as a bewildered tourist for long enough to take care of a couple of cops, defused a literal bomb, and got revenge in the middle of a fancy dress party, as well as shooting a ton of people in sensitive places. Meanwhile, Reese crashes cars in his first and second episodes, not to mention the kneecap thing. I love the man, but he's only subtle for as long as subtlety's needed... or until he gets bored.

I do love that they always showed Shaw to be every bit as competent and deadly as Reese, and generally less sentimental. I just wish they'd kept an equal emphasis on their shared versatility, too!

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[amovingtarget]

Oh my gosh, right! Shaw is just... a hammer when it comes to talking to people, but her nature perhaps makes it easier for her to be good at her job than Reese, who is basically um... fuck all of this and your kneecaps as well. (^_^)

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[enemyofperfect]

Yeah, Shaw is never going to be super subtle in her personal relationships, but she can fake it when she needs to, and her dispassionate analysis is so useful in their line of work! Whereas I'm pretty sure Reese sometimes shoots stuff just to amuse himself.

(I love him, but his sense of humor is really the worst.)

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[amovingtarget]

Shaw: social hammer, operational scalpel.
Reese: social scalpel, operational hammer.

(WHAT DO YOU MEAN? IT'S CLEARLY THE BEST!!!)

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[enemyofperfect]

It's terrible Salma! I don't know what to tell you!

But your comparison is the best. ♥

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[spikedluv]

Oh man, there used to be so much meta! Also, I can't c&p it, but I loved that last line about John being subtle only as long as he needed to be, or until he gets bored. *g*

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[enemyofperfect]

Aww, thank you! I do miss the good old meta days. But your POI icon made me smile. :)

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[felis]

It's interesting, I side-eyed the hammer/scalpel thing myself, because it didn't seem accurate to me either, but I mostly came at it from a Reese perspective, i.e. as soon as Harold said that, I had this montage of Reese crashing cars and driving huge trucks into things in my head and I just thought, my dear Harold, that's an interesting take on your husband you have there. :-D (Which is kind of fascinating if you want to go for a Watsonian explanation, because if I remember correctly, Harold says that during the time when Reese abandoned him, so there could be some real bias and pining in his assessment.) So because it didn't fit Reese, it was a given for me that it wasn't a particularly accurate take on Shaw either, but I like how you spelled it out here. But they had this whole Finch/Shaw mini-arc there for a while, where they didn't quite click at first and while I appreciated the idea in theory, especially given where they were coming from, I think that Shaw's characterization seemed a bit broad and oversimplified for a while, compared to her introductory episode.

equal emphasis on their shared versatility

This! They went a bit overboard in deriving comedic moments from differences and traits that weren't particularly accurate/too much of a caricature. I mean, it's always nice if people's skills compliment each other, and Reese's capacity for gentleness with people is something that is unique to him and that I've always cherished (and that, ironically enough, the show kind of forgot about in later seasons as well), but that says nothing about his methods in other situations. Although I think his hammer moments sometimes have a part in them that's just total recklessness, which I don't think is true for Shaw.

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[enemyofperfect]

I mostly came at it from a Reese perspective, i.e. as soon as Harold said that, I had this montage of Reese crashing cars and driving huge trucks into things in my head and I just thought, my dear Harold, that's an interesting take on your husband you have there. :-D

OMG, seriously! Mr. Reese is a model of decorum, Finch thinks fondly; meanwhile, is Reese cooling his heels in jail after slugging Fusco in a bar parking lot.

But they had this whole Finch/Shaw mini-arc there for a while, where they didn't quite click at first and while I appreciated the idea in theory, especially given where they were coming from, I think that Shaw's characterization seemed a bit broad and oversimplified for a while, compared to her introductory episode.

Yes, so much yes on both counts! It made complete sense for Finch to be cautious and suspicious of someone new, given his personality and history, and I'm sure Shaw had less incentive to humor him than Reese did even before he fell in love, but the show's execution was frustrating.

Reese's capacity for gentleness with people is something that is unique to him and that I've always cherished (and that, ironically enough, the show kind of forgot about in later seasons as well), but that says nothing about his methods in other situations. Although I think his hammer moments sometimes have a part in them that's just total recklessness, which I don't think is true for Shaw.

Ahhh, I love your point about Reese's recklessness, that's so true! Shaw is clearly willing to take risks, but Reese almost made a bleak game out of it sometimes. And yes, absolutely his empathy was something special about him, and I would have loved so much if they'd gotten more mileage out of that -- Shaw taking the coldly rational view while Reese was busy getting attached. I always felt like there was more room there for Finch and Shaw to find common ground than the show made time for, too.

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[felis]

more room there for Finch and Shaw to find common ground

Do you mean in general or regarding rationality specifically? Because I feel like Finch/rationality is a really complicated relationship. But I'd love to know where you see potential commonalities between the two of them, if something is sticking out to you! I mean, my first association was "How much do you know about chemistry?" "Enough." *big explosion*, which is certainly interesting given Finch's thoughts on hammers and scalpels (:-D), but there isn't anything that immediately springs to mind as "I wish they'd explored this potential common ground aspect" at the moment.

Re: Person of Interest, parallels between Shaw and other characters

[enemyofperfect]

Because I feel like Finch/rationality is a really complicated relationship.

Oh, absolutely. (Although I think I wasn't always as aware of that as I am now!) But let's see if I can put into words what I was too tired to articulate yesterday...

Finch doesn't always follow the logic; he has plenty of moments of squeamishness or wishful thinking, and he's clearly very biased in Reese's favor. But I think sometimes he has to reason his way through things that other people might not, and I think sometimes a formal argument will catch his attention where more conventional attempts at persuasion fail to register.

So I feel like there could have been an opportunity to show Shaw breaking something down for him in a language he understands when even Reese might have to take a moment to boggle at Finch's gently alien nature -- or even for her to make blatant appeals to his emotional priorities that are framed very directly, bald of the padding someone else might use. Or in the other direction (is it telling that I imagine Shaw figuring Finch out before the reverse?), I think in cases where Finch wasn't too close to the issue for dispassionate analysis, he'd have the potential to be very effective in communicating with Shaw, and maybe even in getting her to see perspectives that didn't interest her until he was able to highlight a reason why they should.

So I guess what I meant was less true common ground, and more... a mutually convenient location they could use to conduct negotiations in relative comfort?

(I would also love to see them doing dangerous Science together, but that's a mostly separate issue.)

[alexseanchai]

What one thing would you change if your favorite canon(s) were rebooted, and why?

Actual women, including at least one from the Parisian Chinese diaspora, in the Miraculous Ladybug writers' room. Because it's supposed to be a girl power show, whose heroine has one white and one Chinese parent, and uh. The writing credits do not reflect this. Also, give the team more budget so they have more time to research how things like the knitting process are supposed to look and so they can afford to create more than one everyday outfit per character. And—while I like Ladybug's blue eyes too, and enough of the transformed heroes have eyes matching their kwamis that Tikki having human-looking blue eyes sounds like great justification for Ladybug to keep her blue eyes—give Marinette eyes that make genetic sense. Gray, maybe, and with the epicanthic fold so she's less white-passing.

And maybe the viewers don't get to find out Adrien Agreste is Chat Noir or Gabriel Agreste is Hawkmoth—not for certain sure—until Marinette does. Then again, maybe not: the dramatic irony inherent in viewers' knowing both Ladybug's and Chat Noir's identities for three seasons now and Hawkmoth's for two is just delicious.

What are some of your favorite neurodivergent characters and how does their neurodivergence manifest?

I might have a few here. ADHD Marinette explains so much of Miraculous Ladybug canon. So does autistic Kagami. (My arguments for Marinette and Adrien being autistic are less thoroughly canon-based.)

[enemyofperfect]

Oh, those are great thoughts for your hypothetical reboot! And I will definitely have to check out your neurodivergent meta if I ever get into Miraculous Ladybug. Thank you so much for your comment! :D

[alexseanchai]

mostly isn't my meta but still 😸

[enemyofperfect]

Ohh, I somehow missed the tumblr.com part of those addresses, with its implication of reblogging! Well, the meta you've written and/or curated, then. ;)

[schneefink]

I have this weird issue that I find the idea of writing meta very intimidating - but thoughts about fandoms?, yes sure I have them!

Right now, I have a lot of feelings about TMA's Basira. On two levels: Basira as a character and how great she is, and why she's not a huge fan favorite, at least not in the sense that there are many fanworks featuring her as the main character.

SPOILERS, obviously.

Starting with the latter, I think one reason might be that, well, she's in a shitty situation. And not a dramatic one, where she turns into a monster or she's pining or it's her destiny to save the world or anything like that - no, it's just that she's trapped in a shitty workplace, she can't quit, her life is constantly in danger, there's nobody she can rely on, even the person she used to be able to trust to handle herself now can't anymore and Basira feels like it's her responsibility to fix it, and her supervisor just came back from a coma and tries to preach to her about the value of sharing information when he's the absolute worst, and so on and so forth. It's not exciting, but it sucks. And I have no idea if this applies to other people but I find this kind of situation exhausting to write about, more so than e.g. Jon's angst because that one is more removed from me, if that makes sense.

I really hope we'll get more Basira in season 5! Her interest in research, and Elias insistence on calling her Detective, makes me think that she's much closer to the Eye than she's so far shown. Actually she reminds me of Gertrude in several ways, and I think it might be very interesting if they'd meet...

[enemyofperfect]

I have this weird issue that I find the idea of writing meta very intimidating - but thoughts about fandoms?, yes sure I have them!

Ahh, I'm so glad you decided to share some! Thank you! :D

And aww, Basira sounds really interesting. I've seen a few posts lately that really make me want to give The Magnus Archives another try. If I ever manage to get past season one, I'll definitely keep an eye (or do I mean ear?) out for her!

[schneefink]

I'm very much in favor of people listening to TMA :D If you tell me what you liked/disliked/interests you, I could tell you if what there'll be more of?

[enemyofperfect]

That's so thoughtful of you! I think it's mostly the lack of an overarching narrative that's made it hard for me to get invested, and I understand that changes dramatically as the series goes on. But I guess I do also find the initial narrator a little unpleasantly grumpy when he isn't reading other people's narratives, so if he ever develops more emotional range in his own right, that would be good to know too!

[schneefink]

I think it's a natural fannish instinct to want to get more people into one's current shiny thing :D

Yes, there'll be a lot of overarching narrative, and Jon has so many different emotions. I think it's generally during/after the first third/half of season 2 that people's episode consumption speeds up dramatically ;) Did you listen to episodes #39-40?

[enemyofperfect]

I did not get that far, sadly, no! But I'll look forward to more emotion as well as longer plot arcs when I make my next attempt. Thank you for the encouragement! :D